Born Confused

I wasn’t intending to post this conversation but I felt it had a lot of merit… (eventually, heehee)

 

OYEhoi (2:52:37 AM):my compliments on your artistic skills

me (3:05:39 AM):ditto

me (3:06:20 AM):but we both know the quality of the hand–a gift from Allah is no reflection on the quality of the heart

me (3:06:28 AM):not to sound preachy

me (3:06:36 AM):but it reminds myself as well

OYEhoi (3:06:54 AM):reminds you of what

me (3:07:56 AM):that my talents aren’t a reflection of inside

me (3:08:10 AM):and Allah has really blessed me

me (3:08:23 AM):I sing, dance and draw pretty well

OYEhoi (3:08:36 AM):artist huh

OYEhoi (3:08:40 AM):thats me

me (3:08:41 AM):and write if I use word

me (3:08:45 AM):but

me (3:09:05 AM):it probabaly wears on my soul

me (3:09:25 AM):I’m most probably not as good, humble, modest inside

me (3:09:29 AM):as I would be

me (3:09:39 AM):if I didn’t have these talents and skills

OYEhoi (3:10:01 AM):i doubt that

OYEhoi (3:10:10 AM):no one stays at their same level of eeman forever

OYEhoi (3:10:36 AM):so if you dislike your level of eeman right now and wish it were higher, than you can make it so, regardless of what skills you have or what you are / aren’t like inside

me (3:11:05 AM):perhaps

me (3:11:08 AM):but..

me (3:11:19 AM):remember when you were graaky

me (3:11:25 AM):back in highschool?

me (3:11:38 AM):awkward

OYEhoi (3:11:47 AM): graaky = ?

me (3:11:50 AM):probably braces, pimples,

me (3:11:58 AM):geeky

me (3:12:19 AM):ya3ni, going to the growing phase

OYEhoi (3:12:19 AM): ummm

OYEhoi (3:12:20 AM): well

OYEhoi (3:12:29 AM): i wasnt that geeky … no pimples or braces

OYEhoi (3:12:33 AM): but ya i know wht u mean

me (3:12:34 AM):LOOOLLz

me (3:12:46 AM):me neither but I think you get what I mean

me (3:13:18 AM):when I say insecurity perhaps does hold some real haya

me (3:13:28 AM):or does it?

me (3:13:38 AM):I have always felt it has…

me (3:13:43 AM):or assumed

OYEhoi (3:13:50 AM): insecurity equals haya?

me (3:13:51 AM):becasue as I

me (3:13:58 AM):ummm

me (3:14:02 AM):idk

me (3:14:06 AM):let me think

me (3:14:16 AM):makes you truly modest

me (3:14:22 AM):truly humble

me (3:14:34 AM):wouldn’t you say?

OYEhoi (3:15:02 AM): wait

OYEhoi (3:15:10 AM): you’re saying insecurity makes you feel modest>

OYEhoi (3:15:11 AM): ?

me (3:16:04 AM):yes, because frankly the fear I feel from insecurity never hindered me and probably made me “truly” brave

OYEhoi (3:16:31 AM): perhaps there might be a better word for it

me (3:16:50 AM):maybe

me (3:17:08 AM):but you can’t help agree, s3?

OYEhoi (3:17:33 AM): i’ll agree with it if I understand more accurately what you’re trying to say

me (3:31:42 AM):then I’ll try a different venue

me (3:31:46 AM):ummm

me (3:31:49 AM):the artist

me (3:32:00 AM):when the artist draws bad

me (3:32:08 AM):he knows he draws bad

me (3:32:36 AM):perhaps he thinks he draws very very very bad

me (3:32:43 AM):but he only draws bad

OYEhoi (3:32:49 AM): okay

me (3:32:59 AM):but because of this dynamic

me (3:33:09 AM):he thinks he is so bad

me (3:33:30 AM):he has made his heart of gold

me (3:33:38 AM):he is humble

me (3:33:43 AM):truly modest

OYEhoi (3:33:48 AM): okay

me (3:33:55 AM):and kind to any who draw

OYEhoi (3:33:59 AM): (only God would truly know, I think)

me (3:34:16 AM):let’s just say this is a fact….i am not done

me (3:34:28 AM):now

me (3:34:35 AM):he draws

me (3:34:39 AM):and draws

me (3:34:48 AM):and practices

me (3:34:57 AM):and he gets good

me (3:35:03 AM):very very good

OYEhoi (3:35:18 AM): okay

me (3:35:19 AM):and he acknowledges now he is pretty good me (3:35:26 AM):so

me (3:35:48 AM):he has lost this “true humility and modesty”

me (3:36:00 AM):and when people compliment him

me (3:36:22 AM):he thanks them and bows his head

me (3:36:30 AM):in a humble manner

me (3:36:41 AM):but he knows inside he is good

me (3:36:57 AM):and thus not truly humble

OYEhoi (3:36:58 AM): pride has grown inside of him

OYEhoi (3:37:16 AM): its a constant struggle, Ilana, to keep pride away, to keep the whispers of Shaytan away

me (3:37:30 AM):even knowledge is pride aye?

OYEhoi (3:38:18 AM): hmm

OYEhoi (3:38:38 AM): if it makes one think that he acquired it out of some “right” of his to do so

OYEhoi (3:38:47 AM): whereas in fact it was given to him by God

OYEhoi (3:38:50 AM): to test him with

me (3:38:54 AM):no no

me (3:39:11 AM):well..

me (3:39:12 AM):hmm

 

me (3:39:29 AM):I think that was the point of the convo

me (3:39:31 AM):hmm

me (3:39:45 AM):and maybe you cannot separate the two

OYEhoi (3:39:49 AM): possibly

me (3:39:50 AM):knowledge and pride?

OYEhoi (3:39:58 AM): i think you can

OYEhoi (3:40:04 AM): many of the sahabaa had knowledge

me (3:40:05 AM):eik min

OYEhoi (3:40:08 AM): but they werent proud

me (3:40:08 AM):please

me (3:40:13 AM):ahh true

OYEhoi (3:40:14 AM): sure, continue

me (3:44:12 AM):ok, since the artist knows he is good at drawing–there’s no true humility is there? Even if he constantly reminds himself that his skill is from Allah alone and that the quality of his soul has nothing to do with it…. but still he has lost that beautiful and painfully acquired humility…. and thus loses

me (3:44:32 AM):?

OYEhoi (3:45:25 AM): thats the problem with drawing figures

OYEhoi (3:45:32 AM): that you try to make it better

OYEhoi (3:45:36 AM): or as good as possible

OYEhoi (3:45:46 AM): and thus you’re trying to emulate the Creator

me (3:45:55 AM):Yaar

me (3:46:03 AM):you TOTALLY LOST THE POINT

me (3:46:10 AM):TOTALLY

me (3:46:22 AM):I am going to throw a CHAPAL at you

me (3:46:35 AM):*anguish*

me (3:46:45 AM):read it again

me (3:47:12 AM):ok, lets say the artist draws Qur’an, phir?

OYEhoi (3:47:15 AM): ok

me (3:47:20 AM):there’s no difference

OYEhoi (3:47:23 AM): thats an inanimate object

me (3:47:28 AM):he still knows he is good

OYEhoi (3:47:38 AM): [because people say he is]

me (3:47:50 AM):animate, inanimate–that’s not the point

me (3:48:00 AM):the point is skill

me (3:48:07 AM):acknowledgment

me (3:48:20 AM):and the nature of your soul

me (3:48:23 AM):!

me (3:48:29 AM):read it again

OYEhoi (3:49:38 AM): it would take a longer conversation to discuss the point Ilana

OYEhoi (3:50:00 AM): because then we’d get into a debate of whether he’s been drawing just as long as he’s been trying to acquire humility

OYEhoi (3:50:01 AM): see?

me (3:50:01 AM):ooyye your tired..

me (3:50:15 AM):OMA

me (3:50:16 AM):yaar

me (3:50:22 AM):change it to a singer

me (3:50:27 AM):not an artist

me (3:50:36 AM):that halal enough for you?

me (3:50:47 AM):or qur’an recitor

me (3:51:21 AM):he recited qur’an badly

me (3:51:24 AM):badly

me (3:51:31 AM):then he improved

OYEhoi (3:52:04 AM): okay

OYEhoi (3:52:12 AM): that was his goal of course

me (3:52:13 AM):and whereas in before he knew he recited Qur’an not so well and thought EVERYONE was better then him

OYEhoi (3:52:19 AM): okay

OYEhoi (3:52:23 AM): go on

me (3:52:26 AM):and was truly humble

me (3:52:38 AM):and then he becomes better

me (3:52:46 AM):and he knows this

me (3:52:52 AM):that he has become better

OYEhoi (3:52:55 AM): right

me (3:53:09 AM):and by knowing that he has become better

me (3:53:27 AM):he has lost “true” humility

OYEhoi (3:53:35 AM): well

OYEhoi (3:53:44 AM): let me give you a small point to think about

OYEhoi (3:53:47 AM): in this

me (3:53:48 AM):whereas in before he thought everyone was better then him

OYEhoi (3:53:49 AM): what if

OYEhoi (3:54:10 AM): he continues to become better at reciting the Qur’an, and even as he becomes better, he recites it alone

me (3:54:22 AM):(so his soul becomes worst?)

OYEhoi (3:54:30 AM): he doesn’t recite in front of others because he’s afraid they might say “ohhhh mashallah what a beautiful voice”

OYEhoi (3:54:47 AM): he does it alone because he is afraid of the people, and he is afraid of his own intentions

OYEhoi (3:54:59 AM): the Sahaba used to constantly question their intentions

me (3:55:02 AM):ok

me (3:55:10 AM):i understand and like that

me (3:55:13 AM):but

me (3:55:20 AM):lets say he talks

me (3:55:39 AM):and just by talking people can tell he has a nice voice?

me (3:55:54 AM):and he knows it

me (3:56:04 AM):shall he never talk? wear niquab?

OYEhoi (3:56:20 AM): lol

me (3:56:20 AM):in order to improve himself? but the point is

OYEhoi (3:56:36 AM): well theres a difference between just talking and actually reciting the Qur’an

me (3:56:38 AM):does his soul truly suffer?

OYEhoi (3:56:45 AM): like me, people have always commented on my voice

OYEhoi (3:56:53 AM): they say its the most memorable thing about me

OYEhoi (3:56:58 AM): i just push that out ofmy mind

OYEhoi (3:57:06 AM): and continue talking as I normally do

me (3:57:21 AM):just but you remembered it now didn’t you?

me (3:57:33 AM):it’s not truly “out”?

me (3:57:35 AM):is it?

me (3:57:49 AM):you’ve acknowledged it

me (3:57:52 AM):inside

me (3:57:57 AM):you know it’s true

me (3:58:04 AM):you don’t act differently

me (3:58:07 AM):but

me (3:58:13 AM):has your soul

me (3:58:17 AM):suffered

me (3:58:24 AM):a lose of humility

me (3:58:29 AM):and modesty

OYEhoi (3:58:32 AM): perhaps a little

me (3:58:43 AM):if you otherwise had a horrid voice

OYEhoi (3:58:52 AM): but you always ask Allaah to give you the strength to regain the quality of soul that pleases Him

OYEhoi (3:58:58 AM): and you constantly ask Him for that

me (3:58:58 AM):see

me (3:59:03 AM):that is my point

me (3:59:10 AM):yes

me (3:59:14 AM):inshAllah

me (3:59:18 AM):but

OYEhoi (3:59:20 AM): what i’m saying is

OYEhoi (3:59:21 AM): Ilana

me (3:59:22 AM):my point

OYEhoi (3:59:25 AM): it goes up and down

me (3:59:25 AM):ok

OYEhoi (3:59:35 AM): yes, a person may lose some humility

OYEhoi (3:59:39 AM): due to various reasons

OYEhoi (3:59:51 AM): but he or she should always seek the help of Allaah in regaining what was lost

OYEhoi (3:59:56 AM): and it comes back

OYEhoi (4:00:01 AM): and then a bit is lost again

OYEhoi (4:00:03 AM): and so on

me (4:00:09 AM):ahhhh

me (4:00:13 AM):inshAllah

me (4:00:18 AM):I like that

OYEhoi (4:00:25 AM): do you remember the hadith of Hanzalah?

OYEhoi (4:00:37 AM): he was a Sahabi

OYEhoi (4:00:42 AM): crying by the side of the road?

OYEhoi (4:00:49 AM): he felt he had become a munafiq

OYEhoi (4:00:53 AM): so Abu Bakr came

OYEhoi (4:00:57 AM): and Hanzalah told him

OYEhoi (4:01:01 AM): and Abu Bakr felt the same way

OYEhoi (4:01:51 AM): they went to Prophet Muhammad … and he explained to Hanzalah that a person’s eeman goes up and down

OYEhoi (4:01:53 AM): its natural

me (4:03:29 AM):but for me personally I don’t just “feel” I know that if I didn’t have as many talents and blessings I had I would be more pure inside. and it’s not a question of eman, i don’t think, it’s a question of haya–the nature of it. but perhaps we purify our talents by serving HIM

OYEhoi (4:04:01 AM): so if you were devoid of talents and skills, then you think that would have been better for your eeman?

me (4:04:28 AM):yes, I would be truly humble—it’s not a question of eman

me (4:04:39 AM):it’s about humility

me (4:04:54 AM):and humility is loved by Allah

me (4:04:59 AM):it’s cleans the soul

OYEhoi (4:05:10 AM): i disagree politely :-)

OYEhoi (4:05:56 AM): the sholars always used to say that theyw ere envious of the sceintists and astronomers … because those two categories of men had more knowledge about the universe Allah made, and thus, they were more humble because they were so over-awed by Allaah’s creation

OYEhoi (4:06:00 AM): *scholars

me (4:07:28 AM):ok let me put it in this way: do you feel your soul would be more humble and pure if you didn’t have your nice voice?

OYEhoi (4:08:26 AM): hmm

OYEhoi (4:08:33 AM): possibly, yes

OYEhoi (4:08:43 AM): I cant discount that possibility

OYEhoi (4:10:00 AM): its different

OYEhoi (4:10:07 AM): if you’re talking about knowledge

OYEhoi (4:10:14 AM): then it can help one become more humble

me (4:10:22 AM):but the Qur’an reciter that use to recite bad and now good knows this is the truth–since he has felt the difference, yes?

OYEhoi (4:10:23 AM): Allah loves an educated believer more

OYEhoi (4:10:50 AM): he may heave felt the SWEETNESS of reciting the Qur’an better when he is alone to himself

OYEhoi (4:10:56 AM): but if he is reciting in front of people

OYEhoi (4:11:01 AM): and they praise him

me (4:11:07 AM):no no

OYEhoi (4:11:08 AM): then that might throw his ego off track

me (4:11:13 AM):your losing the point

me (4:11:25 AM):yes, that’s sorta the point

OYEhoi (4:11:46 AM): well I think I get your point, but I’m modifying it a little when I answer :-)

me (4:11:58 AM):yeah

me (4:12:00 AM):but

me (4:12:54 AM): lets pretend when you were little–your voice was horrid–squeaky and high like a girl

me (4:13:11 AM):you know how people treated you

me (4:13:16 AM):made fun of you

OYEhoi (4:13:19 AM): uhuh

me (4:13:25 AM):and you were truly humble

me (4:13:32 AM):but then you hit puberty

me (4:13:39 AM):and your voice changes

me (4:13:52 AM):and now people are hella nice to you

me (4:13:58 AM):you notice the difference

OYEhoi (4:14:03 AM): but thats natural

OYEhoi (4:14:05 AM): [you’ll have to pick a better example - no one made fun of my voice when iw as little, though;-)]

me (4:14:11 AM):you know your voice is da bomb

me (4:14:20 AM):mashAllah

me (4:14:23 AM):and even tho

me (4:14:27 AM):you know

OYEhoi (4:14:27 AM): sorry, continue

me (4:14:36 AM):it’s a gift from Allah

me (4:14:53 AM):your no longer truly humble

me (4:14:55 AM):ji?

me (4:15:08 AM):in this way

me (4:15:13 AM):I am trying to say

me (4:15:28 AM):that as talented as I, you another might be

OYEhoi (4:15:34 AM): uhuh

me (4:15:37 AM):I know that at least from myself

me (4:15:49 AM):it has taken a piece of humility from me OYEhoi (4:15:56 AM): then do this Ilana

me (4:15:58 AM):and made me worst then what i could be without it

OYEhoi (4:16:00 AM): its simple

OYEhoi (4:16:03 AM): do this

me (4:16:19 AM):and that saddens me

OYEhoi (4:16:21 AM): when you’re all alone, go into sujoud and ask Allah to help you get that humility back

OYEhoi (4:16:32 AM): and keep asking for it

OYEhoi (4:16:38 AM): thats all

me (4:17:04 AM):good bloody answer

me (4:17:07 AM):mashAllah

OYEhoi (4:17:13 AM): lol

OYEhoi (4:17:25 AM): hope it was clean, and not *that* bloody

OYEhoi (4:17:26 AM): haha

me (4:17:38 AM):damn, it’s been bothering me for sooooo long

me (4:17:45 AM):like forever

OYEhoi (4:17:49 AM): that you’re pretty?

me (4:17:55 AM):ughhh

me (4:18:02 AM):like everything combined!

OYEhoi (4:18:06 AM): hey dont get frustrated

me (4:18:16 AM):(I sound like a snob but who cares)

OYEhoi (4:18:22 AM): be articulate and say whats on your mind so we can figure it out

me (4:18:26 AM):LOLz

OYEhoi (4:18:28 AM): no, i dont mind if you sound like a snob

me (4:18:29 AM):yes

me (4:19:17 AM):the beauty, the dancing, the singing, the writing well, the drawing

me (4:19:22 AM):Alhudmuillah

OYEhoi (4:19:30 AM): l’artiste

me (4:19:34 AM):I am grateful

me (4:19:37 AM):but

OYEhoi (4:19:38 AM): alhamdulillaah

me (4:19:45 AM):idk

me (4:19:50 AM):you understand (I hope)

me (4:20:14 AM):and it brings me joy

me (4:20:17 AM):no doubt

me (4:20:21 AM):makes me love Allah

me (4:20:35 AM):for how much He has blessed me me (4:20:38 AM):alhudmuillah

me (4:20:42 AM):but still

me (4:20:53 AM):the haya… i wish was more

me (4:20:56 AM):blah

me (4:20:58 AM):blah

me (4:20:59 AM):blah

OYEhoi (4:21:04 AM): ok

me (4:21:18 AM):I totally have exposed myself

OYEhoi (4:21:23 AM): no you havent

OYEhoi (4:21:41 AM): its the wish of many muslims to want a higher state of eeman, of sweetness in their soul

OYEhoi (4:21:45 AM): and thats a good thing

OYEhoi (4:22:02 AM): the answer is just so freaking simple

OYEhoi (4:22:30 AM): get down in sujoud and ask Allaah for whatever you want, and ask Him as if you were asking a beloved friend or caretaker

me (4:22:35 AM):yeah I hate you

me (4:22:40 AM):for the sake of ALlah

me (4:22:42 AM):LOOOLLz

OYEhoi (4:22:42 AM): no problem

me (4:22:50 AM):it’s that easy

me (4:22:57 AM):and for a year

me (4:23:13 AM):I have been just waiting

me (4:23:20 AM):in torment

me (4:23:32 AM):in a tormented kind of state

me (4:23:43 AM):not knowing what to do

OYEhoi (4:23:50 AM): waiting for what

me (4:24:06 AM):when haya doesn’t color every action of ours

me (4:24:11 AM):of mine*

me (4:24:17 AM):like I felt it use to

me (4:24:58 AM):waiting for humility to just hit me in the face i suppose

me (4:25:09 AM):to come back’

OYEhoi (4:25:15 AM): because back then, your state of eeman was different

OYEhoi (4:25:19 AM): and now its different

OYEhoi (4:25:30 AM): dont be frustrated that it seems to have dipped a little

me (4:25:47 AM):ok eeman

me (4:25:52 AM):the sweetness of the soul

OYEhoi (4:25:57 AM): its everything

me (4:26:04 AM):it seems to have changed in me

OYEhoi (4:26:11 AM): beleif, the state of the soul, and its reflected in your actions and words

me (4:26:21 AM):I see beauty and joy in everything

OYEhoi (4:26:23 AM): go on

me (4:26:37 AM):and have become ssssssssssoooo greatful to Allah

me (4:26:45 AM):and become joyful myself

OYEhoi (4:26:51 AM): uhuh

me (4:26:52 AM):and I cry too

me (4:27:01 AM):because I feel so much

me (4:27:18 AM):but i feel it’s incomplete

me (4:27:24 AM):because

me (4:27:58 AM):when I was “emo”, felt a lot of pain, I also had a lot of humility

me (4:28:21 AM):and the pain I don’t wish back of course

me (4:28:58 AM):but the humility and purity I had which is better then now, i wish THAT back

me (4:29:02 AM):feel me?

OYEhoi (4:29:08 AM): yup, go on

me (4:29:14 AM):or you have no idea?

me (4:29:25 AM):well is my humility attainable without pain?

me (4:30:04 AM):that purity obtained without pain

me (4:30:15 AM):constant and overwhelming pain?

OYEhoi (4:30:19 AM): [i have an idea, but go on]

me (4:30:58 AM):because that pain depressed me

me (4:31:17 AM):and that colored dark the beautiful signs of Allah

OYEhoi (4:31:29 AM): k

me (4:31:33 AM):then I do not wish that back

OYEhoi (4:31:40 AM): do you know why you were in pain?

OYEhoi (4:31:44 AM): precisely why?

me (4:32:27 AM):let’s just say a lack of blessings from Allah as compared to now :-)

OYEhoi (4:32:33 AM): ok

OYEhoi (4:32:40 AM): once a man was walking along

OYEhoi (4:32:45 AM): head drooped down

OYEhoi (4:32:50 AM): he was kinda hunched over

OYEhoi (4:32:54 AM): Umar [ra] saw him

OYEhoi (4:33:04 AM): and asked “Why are you walking like that?”

OYEhoi (4:33:17 AM): so the man said “i’m trying to be humble, because we’re supposed to be humble”

OYEhoi (4:33:52 AM): so Umr [ra] said “No, thats not humbleness … you should walk upright and straight as God created you, wiith dignity … but behumble in your actions and speech”

OYEhoi (4:34:01 AM): what i’m getting at is Allaah will always test you in many different ways

OYEhoi (4:34:26 AM): its His sunnah .. that in this life

OYEhoi (4:34:29 AM): if you think about it in this life

OYEhoi (4:34:42 AM): Allaah has created NOTHING that gives you complete pelasure

OYEhoi (4:34:55 AM): whatever gives you pleasure will also, sooner or later, give you some sadness

OYEhoi (4:35:00 AM): money

OYEhoi (4:35:01 AM): kids

OYEhoi (4:35:05 AM): food

OYEhoi (4:35:07 AM): whatever

OYEhoi (4:35:27 AM): the only thing that will give you all pleasure and no sadness is His Mercy and Jannah

OYEhoi (4:35:41 AM): so yes, in this life you will always have pain and some sadness, and thats normal

OYEhoi (4:35:51 AM): but pain is NOT necessary to attain humility

OYEhoi (4:36:02 AM): sometimes you can learn humility through the examples of others

OYEhoi (4:36:15 AM): so just remember there is that distinction

OYEhoi (4:36:42 AM): Allaah has the power and ability of course, to create that humility in your heart without having you go through any pain

OYEhoi (4:37:27 AM): so seriously, in plain language … in english, in urdu, in arabiy, in whatever … ask Allaah to increase you in haya and humility

OYEhoi (4:37:38 AM): and to spare you from pain and misery and suffering

OYEhoi (4:37:48 AM): ask, and ye shall definitel recieve :-)

me (4:38:18 AM):(if you knew how wide I am smiling)

OYEhoi (4:38:33 AM): alhamdulillaah 3ala kulli haal

OYEhoi (4:38:56 AM): lol

me (4:39:08 AM)::DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

OYEhoi (4:39:13 AM): i try to give my help

OYEhoi (4:39:26 AM): only Allaah alone decides

OYEhoi (4:39:35 AM): whether it will have any effect or not

me (4:39:43 AM):of course but at least I am attempting to go somewhere

me (4:40:05 AM):and know how

me (4:40:14 AM):it’s weird

me (4:40:32 AM):I have never been able to explain fully this dilemma

me (4:40:55 AM):people say eman is like a ball

OYEhoi (4:40:57 AM): well, lets work it out then

me (4:41:04 AM):and we’re like paper

me (4:41:19 AM):not being to ever fully cover the ball perfectly

OYEhoi (4:41:30 AM): uhuh

me (4:41:31 AM):or without wrinkles

me (4:41:50 AM):and that mentality just makes you resign

me (4:41:59 AM):and in the end you don’t know what to do

Trackback URI | Comments RSS