
wannabeharamoobobi:ok whats ur thoughts on athiesm?
me:The world is need of more piety and less self righteousness…[whether religious or otherwise]
wannabeharamoobobi:or let me ask in another way a number of athiests say, “why do i need religion to be a moral human being, i can be moral enuf w/o religion”
or something similar, what are your reactions to that? is that indeed possible?
me:i disrespect them for being blind in the heart; and I approve of their intellect and not taking things because of the status quo
in my volunteer work I see atheists good people striving to be altruistic I admire that
however, it is the human nature to love good it is their fitrah that causes one to feel good after doing good so it’s natural to be good but they do it for themselves so they miss out on the lesson of life
wannabeharamoobobi:so then how would one understand what Allah means when He talks about the fitra of some people being “erased”? or “smashed”
me:people who love and enjoy the bad and hate the good and don’t even realize they are doing bad like even the people of Lut knew they were doing bad’ you want to make us pure? get out of here’
wannabeharamoobobi:uhuh
me:and the sadists, the murders of today that they enjoy harm and get a kick out of it this perversity is the fitrah destroyed
wannabeharamoobobi: so how wud u explain all of that to an atheist and respond to that claim, that religion isnt needed to keep morality? what is it about religion that preserves the fitra?
me: According to english www.google.com/search?q=define%3A+moral&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a they would be moral. morality isn’t necessarily linked to religion the very basic level
wannabeharamoobobi:thats true
me:but intention is the blossom of the fruit
wannabeharamoobobi:but what is it about religion that “maintains” or “perfects” morality?? i mean maintains and perfects Fitra?
me: intention, and the lesson of life: selflessness, resigning to Allah
wannabeharamoobobi:and if you dont think there’s any Allah?
me:then your morality is shallow
wannabeharamoobobi:ok, why shallow? according to what?
me:not true morality
wannabeharamoobobi:the athiest wud say truth is relative
me:like everyone is a slave of Allah
wannabeharamoobobi:only according to you
me:well in relativism
wannabeharamoobobi:because i can just as well of my own accord to all the “moral” things, like give charity, help a lady cross the street, not lie/cheat, etc
me:the only absolute is that there is no absolution and therefore defeats itselfand therefore relativism is not true
wannabeharamoobobi:well then some people think its moral to support gays and some say its immoral so who’s line do i take? why shud i listen to an outdated book authored by who-knows from the stone age?
me:you realize that kaffir is worse then being gay and everyone has desired someone that wasn’t halal for them but we still talk to kaffirs
wannabeharamoobobi:go on…
me:and we inshAllah don’t act on our wishes and restrain from the major sins inshAllah and a sign of the believer is when they do wrong and feel bad it’s a combination of Love, Hope and Fear with Allah swt why do you ask?
wannabeharamoobobi:
to be honest i’ve been observing alot of whats going on with people, and it seems athiesm is growing alarmingly, and even one could say anti-thiesm, meaning outright disdain of anything “divine” actually im thinking of writing a book about a muslim’s response to athiesm’s questions
me:
well, they belong in the interfaith community too
it’s their choice
wannabeharamoobobi:
so im playing devils’ advocate with you and seeing what you think
me:
and some of them become Muslim
wannabeharamoobobi:
thats all true of course
let me ask you
why do you think Allah exists?
i’ve been trying to put myself in their shoes
following their line of reasoning
why worship someone you dont know?
and those who “know Allah thru spirit”, is there a way to determine what is genuine in that and what is delusion?
wannabeharamoobobi:
why is it that in Islam,
me:
Allah is beyond “existence” and simply never has a begining or an ending, God tells us of Himself what He pleases–and if the sun is too bright to see–how can we stand to see God. And like our preception of the sun “setting” (but not really) Allah tells His characteristics not essence
wannabeharamoobobi:
humans are asked to make sacrifices to perfect themselves, instead of going the direct route like in Buddhism, and enhancing themselves and building their powers?
me:
how do we have the concept –even the word of perfect?
infinite?
we know them in theory–but do we KNOW them?
these are God-given voc—sorry restate your question
wannabeharamoobobi:
the last one? well do u know a little about Buddhism?
they believe in basically enhancing the human abilities, like for example working on your concentration
until you reach a super level of concentration
me:
well we do that too
in prayer
purifying intentions All the TIME
and concentration on Allah
and not on the illusion of this life
wannabeharamoobobi:
hmm maybe i didnt explain myself
me:or ego
wannabeharamoobobi:
if you look at the islamic rituals, its all a matter of efacement and sacrifice, and that emptiness that is left is filled with a higher level of holiness so to speak
whereas in other systems like buddhism, its more like trying to enhance and develop your “powers”, like chi
in other words, our concentration is directed at effacing ourselves in front of Allah’s glory
both of us conentrate
but in different ways for different reasons
2:06amme:
well all power is from Allah
I say Muslims go to teh source
2:07amwannabeharamoobobi:
so at least what i think so far, is that the reason we need religion is to not be complacent with a basic simple level of morality that any human can attain
but rather we’re asked in religion to aim for higher loftier levels
2:07amme:
life is about striving to reach prefection
in any form
the seed to teh tree
and a struggle is born
perhaps because Allah is perfection
2:09amwannabeharamoobobi:
so an athiest cud say “well i am moral too, so what??” but islam will say, your morality cant be static, you as a human have much more potential to realize
so its good u can help ladies cross the street
but why stop there?
2:09amme:
“He who does not look upon things with the eye of insight is lost and to be blamed.”
–Sayyid Jamal ad-Din
2:10amwannabeharamoobobi:
well aside from the whole question “does God exist”, what do you think of the other more humanly relevant “does the soul exist, and how are you sure it does?”
2:11amme:
Some don’t believe in it, yes, but an energy
or aura
the soul in Islam is a matter we’re aren’t told of
it’s with Allah
but in heartbreak
love
joy
2:12amwannabeharamoobobi:
like why shud i believe that dreams are significant and not think that it is brain cells firing off
2:12amme:
our hearts FEEL
why?
well, if you believe everything happened by accident
i can’t help you there or anywhere
if you believe in no reason
your beyond reason
2:14amwannabeharamoobobi:
“if you cant defend the tenets of your faith rationally, then why shud anyone take your faith seriously?”
2:14amme:
there are certain truths and absolutes in this world of grey
well the thing about faith is that you don’t know everything
and so some say the more faithful know less
but I believe in moderation
and a mix of both
2:16amwannabeharamoobobi:
why do you - ilana isa alazzeh - believe the soul exists?
2:16amme:
becuase knowledge and intelect and strenght the faith too
becuase we ae the soul
our soul is imperfect
like teh moon
2:17amwannabeharamoobobi:
how is the moon (or soul) imperfect?
2:17amme:
scared and imperfected
impatience
selfish
2:17amwannabeharamoobobi:
what does it mean “we are the soul”?
2:17amme:
a baby
personally i believe we takes parts of teh moon (soul)
with different scars
2:18amwannabeharamoobobi:
all i see is a body, and if you are talking about feelings and so on, i can inject you with physostigmine and make you “feel” fear
2:18amme:
and therefore God gives different lives perfect only for us
2:18amwannabeharamoobobi:
sorry i didnt get that last sentence
2:19amme:
so we can reach our potential
(I finished up)
2:20amwannabeharamoobobi:
i dont know if u gave a convincing reason why to believe in the soul’s existence,
instead of explaining some aspects of the soul
2:21amme:
well you don’t believe there is an essence?
your physical state is aboslute
even though it changes?
2:21amwannabeharamoobobi:
(me:, i do believe in the soul, im just playing the other side)
2:22amme:
and you might feel ugly but be beautiful physically?
(I know)
( i am asking the athest in you)
2:22amwannabeharamoobobi:
well ok, yes of course our physical bodies change
and our “consciousness” stays the same in our life
but why cant i say that its the environment that forms my conscious, or even how to explain psychos with multiple personalities?
2:23amme:
what is that intact goodness?
to do good and feel good?
2:23amwannabeharamoobobi:
therefore even consciousness isnt permanent and fixed
2:23amme:
intant*
inate*
2:24amwannabeharamoobobi:
if my parents raised me to be racist, then my “inate” goodness would be that i hate other races
i wud see racism as good
2:25amme:
but would you ever feel a gulit?
2:25amwannabeharamoobobi:
i could, but why does that prove the soul is there?
2:25amme:
do something and feel it bad even though everyone says it is fine
it’s something within you heaven sent
to feel inate good or guilt
2:26amwannabeharamoobobi:
you just added a whole other variable to the mix
2:27amme:
what if it the variable?
2:27amwannabeharamoobobi:
now i have to believe in heaven, and then believe that it sends me stuff, before i can begin to believe in a soul
2:27amme:
ahhaha Wallah I would love to go on
but I HAVE to sleep
HAVEEEEE
2:27amwannabeharamoobobi:
:)
sure
thanks for the talk
2:28amme:
inshAllah you’ll find your soul answer
sorry I couldn’t help
2:28amwannabeharamoobobi:
haha, my question wasnt even that
2:28amme:
can I use tehconvo for the blog?
2:28amwannabeharamoobobi:
yes u can
do u really want to know my true question btw?
2:29amme:
only if you wanted
Allah then you would know best
2:30amwannabeharamoobobi:
actually my true question im trying to answer is this
2:31amwannabeharamoobobi:
how is it that a human soul - in all its weakness- is able to mount a full defensive against the influence of the word “la ilaha illa allah” when that word is powerful enuf to create and destroy the whole universe; when it has all that power, why cant it overcome any kind of defense that humans put up?
like Allah says the Qur’an would shake the earth and crumble the mountains and cuase the dead to speak
so with all that power, why no effect on the human?
2:32amme:
becuase Allah said so
His mercy
2:32amwannabeharamoobobi:
thats actually my real question now, not whether the soul exists or if religion is needed
2:32amme:Rahma, Patience we have free will for now becuase we choose it
2:33amwannabeharamoobobi: Ilana, even muslims those who already believe in qur’an and so on yet no (or little) effect on us ya’ni our door to it shud be wide open one time Sayyidina ‘Isa pronounced Allah’s name on a pagan temple, and it crumbled away the Sahabi Ibn Masud said, that if you read the last 4 verses of surat Mu’minun, you can move mountains and cure the insaneanyway u need to sleep just wanted to share that with u
2:36amme:Jazakullahkhair i think I have about 2 and then one more hour to sleep
2:37amwannabeharamoobobi:sorry for keeping u
2:37amme:or you I don’t nah, it’s fine–it’s a choice I would choose a convesation ove sleep anyday
2:38amwannabeharamoobobi::) sweet dreams for your soul wa alf salam
me:as well as for you salaam