Born Confused

wannabeharamoobobi:ok whats ur thoughts on athiesm?
me:The world is need of more piety and less self righteousness…[whether religious or otherwise]
wannabeharamoobobi:or let me ask in another way a number of athiests say, “why do i need religion to be a moral human being, i can be moral enuf w/o religion”
or something similar, what are your reactions to that? is that indeed possible?
me:i disrespect them for being blind in the heart; and I approve of their intellect and not taking things because of the status quo
in my volunteer work I see atheists good people striving to be altruistic I admire that
however, it is the human nature to love good it is their fitrah that causes one to feel good after doing good so it’s natural to be good but they do it for themselves so they miss out on the lesson of life
wannabeharamoobobi:so then how would one understand what Allah means when He talks about the fitra of some people being “erased”? or “smashed”
me:people who love and enjoy the bad and hate the good and don’t even realize they are doing bad like even the people of Lut knew they were doing bad’ you want to make us pure? get out of here’
wannabeharamoobobi:uhuh
me:and the sadists, the murders of today that they enjoy harm and get a kick out of it this perversity is the fitrah destroyed
wannabeharamoobobi: so how wud u explain all of that to an atheist and respond to that claim, that religion isnt needed to keep morality? what is it about religion that preserves the fitra?
me: According to english www.google.com/search?q=define%3A+moral&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a they would be moral. morality isn’t necessarily linked to religion the very basic level
wannabeharamoobobi:thats true
me:but intention is the blossom of the fruit
wannabeharamoobobi:but what is it about religion that “maintains” or “perfects” morality?? i mean maintains and perfects Fitra?
me: intention, and the lesson of life: selflessness, resigning to Allah
wannabeharamoobobi:and if you dont think there’s any Allah?
me:then your morality is shallow
wannabeharamoobobi:ok, why shallow? according to what?
me:not true morality
wannabeharamoobobi:the athiest wud say truth is relative
me:like everyone is a slave of Allah
wannabeharamoobobi:only according to you
me:well in relativism
wannabeharamoobobi:because i can just as well of my own accord to all the “moral” things, like give charity, help a lady cross the street, not lie/cheat, etc
me:the only absolute is that there is no absolution and therefore defeats itselfand therefore relativism is not true
wannabeharamoobobi:well then some people think its moral to support gays and some say its immoral so who’s line do i take? why shud i listen to an outdated book authored by who-knows from the stone age?
me:you realize that kaffir is worse then being gay and everyone has desired someone that wasn’t halal for them but we still talk to kaffirs
wannabeharamoobobi:go on…
me:and we inshAllah don’t act on our wishes and restrain from the major sins inshAllah and a sign of the believer is when they do wrong and feel bad it’s a combination of Love, Hope and Fear with Allah swt why do you ask?
wannabeharamoobobi:
to be honest i’ve been observing alot of whats going on with people, and it seems athiesm is growing alarmingly, and even one could say anti-thiesm, meaning outright disdain of anything “divine” actually im thinking of writing a book about a muslim’s response to athiesm’s questions
me:
well, they belong in the interfaith community too
it’s their choice
wannabeharamoobobi:
so im playing devils’ advocate with you and seeing what you think
me:
and some of them become Muslim
wannabeharamoobobi:
thats all true of course
let me ask you
why do you think Allah exists?
i’ve been trying to put myself in their shoes
following their line of reasoning
why worship someone you dont know?
and those who “know Allah thru spirit”, is there a way to determine what is genuine in that and what is delusion?
wannabeharamoobobi:
why is it that in Islam,
me:
Allah is beyond “existence” and simply never has a begining or an ending, God tells us of Himself what He pleases–and if the sun is too bright to see–how can we stand to see God. And like our preception of the sun “setting” (but not really) Allah tells His characteristics not essence
wannabeharamoobobi:
humans are asked to make sacrifices to perfect themselves, instead of going the direct route like in Buddhism, and enhancing themselves and building their powers?
me:
how do we have the concept –even the word of perfect?
infinite?
we know them in theory–but do we KNOW them?
these are God-given voc—sorry restate your question
wannabeharamoobobi:
the last one? well do u know a little about Buddhism?
they believe in basically enhancing the human abilities, like for example working on your concentration
until you reach a super level of concentration
me:
well we do that too
in prayer
purifying intentions All the TIME
and concentration on Allah
and not on the illusion of this life
wannabeharamoobobi:
hmm maybe i didnt explain myself
me:or ego
wannabeharamoobobi:
if you look at the islamic rituals, its all a matter of efacement and sacrifice, and that emptiness that is left is filled with a higher level of holiness so to speak
whereas in other systems like buddhism, its more like trying to enhance and develop your “powers”, like chi
in other words, our concentration is directed at effacing ourselves in front of Allah’s glory
both of us conentrate
but in different ways for different reasons
2:06amme:
well all power is from Allah
I say Muslims go to teh source
2:07amwannabeharamoobobi:
so at least what i think so far, is that the reason we need religion is to not be complacent with a basic simple level of morality that any human can attain
but rather we’re asked in religion to aim for higher loftier levels
2:07amme:
life is about striving to reach prefection
in any form
the seed to teh tree
and a struggle is born
perhaps because Allah is perfection
2:09amwannabeharamoobobi:
so an athiest cud say “well i am moral too, so what??” but islam will say, your morality cant be static, you as a human have much more potential to realize
so its good u can help ladies cross the street
but why stop there?
2:09amme:
“He who does not look upon things with the eye of insight is lost and to be blamed.”
–Sayyid Jamal ad-Din
2:10amwannabeharamoobobi:
well aside from the whole question “does God exist”, what do you think of the other more humanly relevant “does the soul exist, and how are you sure it does?”
2:11amme:
Some don’t believe in it, yes, but an energy
or aura
the soul in Islam is a matter we’re aren’t told of
it’s with Allah
but in heartbreak
love
joy
2:12amwannabeharamoobobi:
like why shud i believe that dreams are significant and not think that it is brain cells firing off
2:12amme:
our hearts FEEL
why?
well, if you believe everything happened by accident
i can’t help you there or anywhere
if you believe in no reason
your beyond reason
2:14amwannabeharamoobobi:
“if you cant defend the tenets of your faith rationally, then why shud anyone take your faith seriously?”
2:14amme:
there are certain truths and absolutes in this world of grey
well the thing about faith is that you don’t know everything
and so some say the more faithful know less
but I believe in moderation
and a mix of both
2:16amwannabeharamoobobi:
why do you - ilana isa alazzeh - believe the soul exists?
2:16amme:
becuase knowledge and intelect and strenght the faith too
becuase we ae the soul
our soul is imperfect
like teh moon
2:17amwannabeharamoobobi:
how is the moon (or soul) imperfect?
2:17amme:
scared and imperfected
impatience
selfish
2:17amwannabeharamoobobi:
what does it mean “we are the soul”?
2:17amme:
a baby
personally i believe we takes parts of teh moon (soul)
with different scars
2:18amwannabeharamoobobi:
all i see is a body, and if you are talking about feelings and so on, i can inject you with physostigmine and make you “feel” fear
2:18amme:
and therefore God gives different lives perfect only for us
2:18amwannabeharamoobobi:
sorry i didnt get that last sentence
2:19amme:
so we can reach our potential
(I finished up)
2:20amwannabeharamoobobi:
i dont know if u gave a convincing reason why to believe in the soul’s existence,
instead of explaining some aspects of the soul
2:21amme:
well you don’t believe there is an essence?
your physical state is aboslute
even though it changes?
2:21amwannabeharamoobobi:
(me:, i do believe in the soul, im just playing the other side)
2:22amme:
and you might feel ugly but be beautiful physically?
(I know)
( i am asking the athest in you)
2:22amwannabeharamoobobi:
well ok, yes of course our physical bodies change
and our “consciousness” stays the same in our life
but why cant i say that its the environment that forms my conscious, or even how to explain psychos with multiple personalities?
2:23amme:
what is that intact goodness?
to do good and feel good?
2:23amwannabeharamoobobi:
therefore even consciousness isnt permanent and fixed
2:23amme:
intant*
inate*
2:24amwannabeharamoobobi:
if my parents raised me to be racist, then my “inate” goodness would be that i hate other races
i wud see racism as good
2:25amme:
but would you ever feel a gulit?
2:25amwannabeharamoobobi:
i could, but why does that prove the soul is there?
2:25amme:
do something and feel it bad even though everyone says it is fine
it’s something within you heaven sent
to feel inate good or guilt
2:26amwannabeharamoobobi:
you just added a whole other variable to the mix
2:27amme:
what if it the variable?
2:27amwannabeharamoobobi:
now i have to believe in heaven, and then believe that it sends me stuff, before i can begin to believe in a soul
2:27amme:
ahhaha Wallah I would love to go on
but I HAVE to sleep
HAVEEEEE
2:27amwannabeharamoobobi:
:)
sure
thanks for the talk
2:28amme:
inshAllah you’ll find your soul answer
sorry I couldn’t help
2:28amwannabeharamoobobi:
haha, my question wasnt even that
2:28amme:
can I use tehconvo for the blog?
2:28amwannabeharamoobobi:
yes u can
do u really want to know my true question btw?
2:29amme:
only if you wanted
Allah then you would know best
2:30amwannabeharamoobobi:
actually my true question im trying to answer is this
2:31amwannabeharamoobobi:
how is it that a human soul - in all its weakness- is able to mount a full defensive against the influence of the word “la ilaha illa allah” when that word is powerful enuf to create and destroy the whole universe; when it has all that power, why cant it overcome any kind of defense that humans put up?
like Allah says the Qur’an would shake the earth and crumble the mountains and cuase the dead to speak
so with all that power, why no effect on the human?
2:32amme:
becuase Allah said so
His mercy
2:32amwannabeharamoobobi:
thats actually my real question now, not whether the soul exists or if religion is needed
2:32amme:Rahma, Patience we have free will for now becuase we choose it
2:33amwannabeharamoobobi: Ilana, even muslims those who already believe in qur’an and so on yet no (or little) effect on us ya’ni our door to it shud be wide open one time Sayyidina ‘Isa pronounced Allah’s name on a pagan temple, and it crumbled away the Sahabi Ibn Masud said, that if you read the last 4 verses of surat Mu’minun, you can move mountains and cure the insaneanyway u need to sleep just wanted to share that with u
2:36amme:Jazakullahkhair i think I have about 2 and then one more hour to sleep
2:37amwannabeharamoobobi:sorry for keeping u
2:37amme:or you I don’t nah, it’s fine–it’s a choice I would choose a convesation ove sleep anyday
2:38amwannabeharamoobobi::) sweet dreams for your soul wa alf salam
me:as well as for you salaam

“Tears for what I never knew
Of love and how it’s won”
This struck as truth as darkly as the sun, in your song of torment and angst and feelings robust—when we think we are old we are simply young; feeling worn and overcome. It is because we feel so strongly, so forward and then undone—when we feel patience’s lesson we’re stung. So now our laughter is loud, our tears bittersweet proud. Savor deeply this period of pain, God’s magic, inspiration and rain.

I cluck my teeth, my cheeks swell, muscles tense, as this Spanish guitar brings tears from a deep well. Exquisite, stunning and angst comes in a form of a sensual dance as rain pours outside, vivid green strucks the eyes as damp thin clothes—cold, demise—stick to skin reminding of a fragile existence and a shivering state. Dark wet curls. The weightlessness of goosebumps. Venerable and still and yet howl and singing mix like a beautiful hell. Exotic strange and yet Allah gave this capacity—this width of feeling breathe of stir—too much feeling now I fall asleep on floor.

Tis halal, excessive nutella gives me a stomachache but loving the sweet through the love of Allah leaves me wanting more. As I convert primal and instinctual urges into something more to oppress the forbidden inside. A flame dies down as smooth chocolate moves in the cheeks, swirling in a swollen mouth of happiness, ready to burst with a blessed curse.
chocolatebeliever.blogspot.com/

so the knowledge retreat at RIS is awesome mashAllah

(12:27 AM) me: so according to our lectures truth is contextualized
(12:28 AM) me: and God gives us what we can perceive
(12:28 AM) me: i like that a lot
(12:28 AM) pagil: deep
(12:28 AM) me: but umm
(12:28 AM) me: i was arguing and explaining this to someone
(12:29 AM) me: they said that through that reasoning, God gives us partial truth
(12:29 AM) me: and partial truth isn’t truth
(12:29 AM) me: it’s dishonest (therefore God would be dishonest)
(12:30 AM) me: but God isn’t relevant
(12:30 AM) me: arrational, right?
(12:30 AM) pagil: yeah i believe arrational was the word
(12:31 AM) me: yeah, it’s pretentious to make everything relevant when we know so little
(12:31 AM) me: and in relevance, there is no absolute
(12:32 AM) me: which in it self is an absolute
(12:32 AM) me: and therefore beats itself

A wall of mirrors looks at me straight on, i scared to look back–a cowardly con? what will i see–where my soul is, a hole? will i see the life’s toll…a temperamental mistress she is, one moment her tresses caress another moment you stress condemners getting endorsement for thier enstonement unless you do enrollment to their version of enscrollment or send you to entombment. Or the horrid mistake might meet my eye–a tear falls, emboding a cry–a blight which cuts into me like a rake. thus i must confess to atest: humility honing the ability to know we have the capacity thus i remind myself for my sake, that theres a chance to advance and then given a choice to venture from righteous strive becoming evil in midnight’s twilight of gray mistaking it for fighting for enlightments ray. lesson is we must be humble becasue with lifes turns an curves, thunder rumbles, and in selfish shock we often stumble seeing our goodness crumble. tis human nature, thus is true, the question is will you stay by masses rule, or will you look in the mirror your soul a bit tier–and within starkes a lighter and says ‘i’ve no joy higher’. what with i see within me? distasteful spite or a blessing of happiness gift not from persuasion but the right done in the time determined as you run against the sun realizing in the end there was only one–yourself. and only God will tell if you’ve won.

so confused, frustrated, used. just when i think i have got it down. a thought makes me frown and turn around, retracing my steps no less no more; i wonder whats the score. my head thumps my heart a huge mass of feeling, i step back the confusion reeling–stealing my soul my confidence my strength. a constant fight. as i take in perspective and of other judgments and beliefs i seek, it puts my life in their perceptive; and this insight is not because i am weak. i am so confused, but i know i wont lose. perhaps this feeling is like a sad intoxication, an absorbed sensation. first a weakness then turned into a beauty; hoping it won’t fall to usury in the ego which thus leds to abusery. i sign as i reevaluated myself; a fob uncle–too strict? or too laxed–and i need a mental whip? i wouldn’t mind a trip, now i totally understand it, but a vague grasp holds me too strong–is it the archaic right and wrong? but for now the gray wilderness, i confess, envelopes me. with it’s starry glitter night or is it light? or perhaps it’s a shuttering fuse, dizzying with complex beauty. happily giggling to confuse.
born confused.

it’s not about love but strength to help another when your afraid to. so i suppose love in a compassionate sense–but i just wanted to clarify.

head spinning. head sinning? this question in my head and in my heart as i dial numbers too farly spaced apart. now i started, advice was given to me. my leg twitches, my heart stitches and i hold my breath too soon. scared to have a mans heart on my plate, a wound? trust, bust, i clutch the blanket at my breast, hoping my voice will bring on rest–is this a test? And his voice comes out surprised, then low and hoarse sounding vulnerable trying to cover it up, inside, with comfortable slang, with a low flavor–a certain tang. he hangs on to his word certain yet unsure, afraid he doesn’t sound pure. he talks and then is at a lose for words. afraid the air, his trust, the peace might curd i say wisdom that not originally my own. but reconfigured, that in a way i recognized and figured out on my own. there will be no stone, only honesty and no stoning. honing on my past as a form of nostalgia, making use of those years of moan and morn. laced with advice i say there’s no scorn in being torn. there advice he has had a taste, and surprisingly he wants more. so slowly my fingers i tap, afraid that this fragile spell might snap. i look at my clock and think to myself vaguely there’s go the nap, i had wished upon, as the red numbers burn into my eyes like the sun. but then i go back to him the one. my feet slide on the carpet back and forth, reinforcing a fort, as a praise and a injured heartfelt thank you is said. i can only pray you mend, and perhaps i have taken it upon me to tend, a responsibility Allah has lent on a short, pricey rent. any goodness, any advice is heaven sent.
and then i look back to my screen, at it would seem that my peer adviser went up and fled to his stead, without a parting as if there was no starting. and i empty my head and heart of care with a resigned ’so what?’ which replies with: ’so there’. retreating back into my lair of homework, sleepless nights, aches until my streaght can be put to balm, applied with a sweet gentle song.
it lags my tongue. there i am done.

On talking about the fear-zing post (sorry I took so long to post this)… I happen to witness an interesting discussion between two friends *popcorn*

person (12:50:40 AM):because I think the crown of wisdom is really higher consciousness
larka (12:54:14 AM): id rather seek that answer from someone who speaks from authority
person (12:54:21 AM):haha
person (12:54:23 AM):that’s fine
person (12:54:32 AM):but ultimately
person (12:54:41 AM):the task is on the individual soul
person (12:54:54 AM):to seek knowledge, enlightenment, and contentment
person (12:55:20 AM):and all of those are different for each and every seeker
person (12:57:22 AM):no matter what position of authority someone is in
person (12:57:33 AM):they can’t tell you the best way to please and express your love for your lord
person (12:57:45 AM):because God has made all as unique as snow flakes
person (12:58:28 AM):each pattern is exquisite and beautiful and completely different; but they’re all snowflakes and they all come from the same source
larka (12:59:22 AM): i enjoy talking about these things, but mainly with ppl who are willing to apply into action what they learn instead of offering arm-chair commentary, otherwise after a while its worthless discussing with someone about swimming for example if they never swam (which is what i mean by authority - i.e. someone who’s experienced himself what he’s talking about, i dont mean someone who is in some position like imam)
person (12:59:41 AM):ah wow
person (12:59:44 AM):harsh
person (12:59:48 AM):what does that mean exactly?
person (12:59:53 AM):putting it into practice?
larka (12:59:54 AM): “its nice to offer poetic opinions, lets see the real action”
person (1:00:01 AM):what does that mean?
person (1:00:06 AM):what would real action imply
person (1:00:25 AM):I can give you examples, I suppose, but really it’s a philosophy
larka (1:01:33 AM): “someone who *knows* the ins and outs details of the Jalal of Allah, and who acts accordingly”
person (1:02:12 AM):?
person (1:02:33 AM):why does it seem we overthink things?
person (1:03:25 AM):the main point I’ve been trying to make is that we should not cower in fear and let that guide our actions
larka (1:03:37 AM): that has authority”
larka (1:03:46 AM): but someone who says “oh i love Allah” but rarely ever for example sends salawat to Allah’s Prophet/Beloved… where is the authority in that?? where is the love? where is the proof?
person (1:03:47 AM):we should purify our intentions so that each and everything we do in life is transformed into an act of worship and an expression of love
larka (1:06:09 AM): im just saying there are ppl who speak from sultan (authority) and idhn (Divine permission), and other ppl who dont have that

larka (1:11:09 AM): “there are ppl that know for example that angels frequent a certain place, based on some hadith or another…. then there are people who go to that place and know the names of those angels… thats authority = direct experience of the knowledge passed down to us
larka (1:11:26 AM): there are ppl that heard from second-hard hearsay, or from some book, that the Prophet is alive… there are other people that go to Madina and offer salams to him, and hear him respond directly to them, thats authority
larka (1:11:48 AM): general statements like “purifying intentions” are good, but arent enuf for those people who want to go deep and arent satisfied with surface understandings of Islam
person (1:12:05 AM):no
person (1:12:11 AM):those people who are trying to go deep
person (1:12:18 AM):are trying to overanalyze
person (1:12:29 AM):those that try do be deep only ever end up drowning
person (1:12:39 AM):this is where sects arise
person (1:12:48 AM):different battling schools of thoughts
person (1:12:52 AM):all these different constructs
person (1:13:09 AM):dedicated to breaking apart and codifying and regulating our connection to God
larka (1:15:44 AM):u seem to think that by “going deep” i mean something mental or intellectual, which is missing the point entirely… no “overanalyzing” here, overanalyzing means that ur only using intellect and nothing else is being effected in you”
person (1:16:24 AM):then I really don’t understand the point this fellow is trying to make
person (1:16:37 AM):we’re talking about what motivates your actions
person (1:16:44 AM):the most basic of things
person (1:16:54 AM):I say the basic motivator should be love
person (1:16:58 AM):because that is the most sincere
larka (1:19:23 AM): well, you dont like the idea of “codifying” and “regulating” our conneciton to God… now some people experience God in that sense of cowering fear. are we gonna tell them “no u got it all the wrong way, u shudnt experience Him like that?
larka (1:19:41 AM):and if we’re talking about what motivates ppls actions, then your not really answering the topic of why/how the head of wisdom is the fear of Allah
person (1:20:14 AM):God is beautiful and loves beauty
person (1:20:19 AM):someone cowering out of fear
person (1:20:29 AM):is not appreciative of God’s beauty
person (1:20:36 AM):shadows cover everything
person (1:20:41 AM):and they’re frightened
person (1:20:49 AM):no one ever gets pleasure or contentment out of fear
person (1:21:21 AM):there’s no wisdom in constantly running and looking behind your back to see if you’re going to get whipped or not
person (1:21:35 AM):wisdom lies in true, constant consciousness
person (1:21:45 AM):that’s what taqwa really is
person (1:21:55 AM):you are constantly aware of His presence
person (1:22:01 AM):so you act accordingly
person (1:22:10 AM):you don’t act rashly because you fear what you may do to him
person (1:22:23 AM):having fear as the head of wisdom is an imbalanced mindset
larka (1:22:33 AM):bec those people know fully what this means: “O Allah, there is no safe place to hide from You except You, we run from You to You”
larka (1:22:49 AM):and then they move from that to a more advanced state
larka (1:23:25 AM):the Prophet (asws) said that in a famous hadith, i wouldnt contravene him
person (1:23:28 AM):perhaps it’s necessary to feel fear somewhere along the path to consciousness
person (1:23:38 AM):but that’s not the destination
person (1:23:44 AM):you should not be stuck on fear
person (1:23:57 AM):if all you feel is fear, then you are not running To Him
person (1:26:01 AM):alright
person (1:26:10 AM):though I don’t think we’re going to come to some easy agreement
larka (1:26:34 AM): the Prophet (asws) said that in a famous hadith, i wouldnt contravene him
those arent my words
i said i dont understand how that cud be, because i havent experienced or reached that height of wisdom, even tho i can come up with answers intellectually
yes, there is a pleasure and contentment deep in fear, when it applies to Allah, like that du’a i quoted
“we run from You to You”
which is found in the Qur’an
larka (1:32:16 AM):just as someone is supposed to experience the Jamal and Beauty of Allah, if someone is *only* experiencing that aspect of Him, then his knowledge of Allah is deficient and limited, the goal is to experience as many aspects of Him, including the Jalal (rigorous severity) of Allah, and the more encompassing knowledge you have of Allah, then the closer to completion u arrive at
larka (1:32:26 AM):and Allah puts some of His slaves in that state of “we run from You to You” because it is actually one of the quickest ways to be consumed in Allah
larka (1:32:39 AM):so Islam isnt a guessing game…. it requires experience of Allah’s Names and their meanings… *EXPERIENCE*
larka (1:32:50 AM):how does the Name of Wadud taste like? how does the Name of Quddus taste like? how does the Name al-Qahhar taste like?
person (1:32:51 AM):ok…
larka (1:32:59 AM):what are their effects in the heart? in the creation around one?
person (1:33:06 AM):but that’s exactly my point
larka (1:33:08 AM):just as at the same time being stuck in fear, and having that state of fear block or veil u from Allah is also a deficiency
person (1:33:16 AM):you experience the many beauties and intricacies of God
person (1:33:31 AM):but ultimately
person (1:34:37 AM):at the core of everything
person (1:34:37 AM):should be your true, unquavering love for Him
person (1:34:37 AM):this is the essential truth we must always return to
person (1:34:37 AM):and all along
person (1:34:37 AM):this is really all I’ve been saying
person (1:34:50 AM):props on “how does the Name of Wadud taste like? how does the Name of Quddus taste like? how does the Name al-Qahhar taste like?”
person (1:34:51 AM):that’s exactly the attitude we should be trying to emulate
person (1:35:01 AM):but we stick out our tongue
person (1:35:11 AM):because of our fervent love and desire
person (1:38:27 AM):to be closer to Him and to be enveloped in his mercy and compassion
larka (1:39:45 AM): alhumduillah
larka (1:39:46 AM):salaam
larka (1:39:51 AM):have a good night
larka (1:42:05 AM):alright…. i might have been a little rough, i hope you werent hurt or offended
person (1:42:21 AM):haha not at all
person (1:42:21 AM):see
person (1:42:21 AM):love motivates me
person (1:42:21 AM):loool
person (1:42:35 AM):that’s love in practice
person (1:42:50 AM):I accept what’s handed to me with contentment
person (1:42:51 AM):boo yaaa
larka (1:44:40 AM):ok good, salaam to both, and remember, talk is cheap

Talking about an intention speech… 

me (4:09:24 AM): nay, yaar like i weep after i heard that speech

me (4:09:33 AM): it hit me in teh gut so bad

peep (4:09:39 AM): yeah me too

me (4:09:45 AM): thank Allah it was dark

me (4:09:49 AM): wallah?

me (4:10:03 AM): my eyes were soooo swallon

me (4:10:08 AM): swollen*

peep (4:10:38 AM): yeah

peep (4:10:42 AM): I tear fairly easy

me (4:11:16 AM): teary happens to me easily

me (4:11:22 AM): weeping like that does not

me (4:11:38 AM): like perhaps once a year

peep (4:11:55 AM): ah mashaAllah

peep (4:12:03 AM): what was it in particular that got to you?

me (4:13:57 AM): umm… perhaps the honesty in which he viewed himself like when he said he doubted himself when he went on stage and gave speeches when he was younger

me (4:14:21 AM): it hit a really insecure spot within me

peep (4:14:32 AM): yeah that’s the thing; he has a very humanistic approach

peep (4:14:44 AM): doesn’t deny the harsh realities and shortcomings that we all have

peep (4:14:51 AM): that’s what makes his words so accessible for us

peep (4:14:54 AM): he’s doesn’t talk down to us

peep (4:15:04 AM): he speaks to the insecurities and very real challenges we all face

me (4:15:16 AM): yes.

me (4:15:29 AM): perhaps knowing i wasn’t teh only one

me (4:15:39 AM): released a lot of tention

peep (4:15:44 AM): yess definitely

me (4:15:47 AM): tension*

peep (4:15:50 AM): honestly

peep (4:15:59 AM): this is the message and mission I’m longing to spread

peep (4:16:03 AM): in general

peep (4:16:26 AM): that we’re all humans, we’re all sinners

peep (4:16:39 AM): but that we should never be scared or afraid to be ourselves

peep (4:16:41 AM): yeah

me (4:16:47 AM): no no go on

peep (4:17:08 AM): I think, despite how obvious this sounds

peep (4:17:23 AM): it’s a philosophy that runs in stark contrast to most “islamic” organizations and institutions

peep (4:17:25 AM): in modern times

peep (4:17:51 AM): that’s why we see more and more teenagers by the truckload become disillusioned and dissatisfied with their muslim communities

peep (4:18:04 AM): they are repelled because of who they are

me (4:18:16 AM): stark in most “islamic” theology and attitude in modern times as well

me (4:18:18 AM): yes

me (4:18:21 AM): i concur

me (4:18:29 AM): go on

peep (4:18:43 AM): wallah that’s it

peep (4:18:45 AM): but basically

peep (4:18:59 AM): that is the mentality I’m setting out to challenge

peep (4:19:12 AM): even if it becomes my life’s work

me (4:19:33 AM): it’s a mentality I have had to fight so hard against

peep (4:19:49 AM): yes

peep (4:19:55 AM): and you are by far not the only one

peep (4:19:59 AM): and you know

peep (4:20:06 AM): this isn’t something necessarily confined to Islam

peep (4:20:18 AM): but a universal mentality that has become so prevalent

peep (4:20:25 AM): the world ove

peep (4:20:25 AM): r

peep (4:20:36 AM): it’s what’s decaying the world

me (4:21:13 AM): ah yes, self-righteousness revolts me— and in fighting sometimes we’re not too sure of ourselves esp when we see we’re the only one

me (4:21:28 AM): so he saying “it’s ok”

me (4:21:46 AM): released …

me (4:22:16 AM): i don’t know, but it’s good to release but it’s not a permanent fix

peep (4:23:06 AM): yes

peep (4:23:16 AM): releasing is just a means of coping

me (4:23:29 AM): I seem to do a lot of that

me (4:23:36 AM): in general

peep (4:23:38 AM): the chemotherapy of the soul

me (4:24:00 AM): does it kill off a part of it too?

peep (4:24:08 AM): perhaps

me (4:24:11 AM): perhaps the weak part?

peep (4:24:17 AM): but it is a temporary solution

me (4:24:21 AM): but a little good too

peep (4:24:22 AM): that does not cure

me (4:24:32 AM): yeah, it’s not a cure at all

me (4:24:45 AM): and i wonder if in resides inside of me

me (4:25:02 AM): or is that resignation in it self?

peep (4:25:56 AM): no

peep (4:26:00 AM): I think it lies in everyone

peep (4:26:20 AM): I mean

peep (4:26:27 AM): the world has not always been this way

peep (4:26:37 AM): jerks haven’t always been running the world

peep (4:29:28 AM): do you think it’s bad

peep (4:29:42 AM): that I’m uncomfortable with people that quote the Prophet more than they use their own words?

me (4:30:00 AM): nope

peep (4:30:09 AM): it just unsettles me

peep (4:30:14 AM): and it unsettles me that it unsettles me

peep (4:30:33 AM): but it’s as though they do not disseminate the information for themselves

peep (4:30:46 AM): but who am I to judge

me (4:30:56 AM): but simply spew it

me (4:31:12 AM): like self-righteousness

me (4:31:17 AM): i understand

peep (4:31:19 AM): no

peep (4:31:24 AM): I wouldn’t say self righteousness

peep (4:31:27 AM): just a laziness

peep (4:31:35 AM): unwilling to form their own opinions and insights

me (4:31:45 AM): but self-righteousness is born from laziness

peep (4:31:47 AM): instead of building off the beauty of the messenger

peep (4:31:59 AM): using his light to ignite their own flame

peep (4:32:07 AM): they simply become parasites

me (4:32:57 AM): indeed, what i meant is that such laziness is what’s given birth to self-righteousness

peep (4:33:04 AM): sure

peep (4:33:06 AM): yes

peep (4:33:13 AM): I think that’s one of the roots of self righteousness

peep (4:33:22 AM): but not all people like that are necessarily self righteous

peep (4:33:28 AM): they are simply… caged

peep (4:33:37 AM): the self righteous are those that are caged

peep (4:33:46 AM): but squack loudly

peep (4:33:49 AM): *squawk

me (4:34:29 AM): caged… yes, so you see that, and distress over it

me (4:34:34 AM): it’s a foresight

me (4:34:41 AM): do not degrade it

peep (4:34:46 AM): I don’t

peep (4:34:52 AM): I feel an urgent fervor

peep (4:34:55 AM): to reach out to them

peep (4:35:02 AM): to bring them into the infinite fields

peep (4:35:13 AM): to smell the roses of love, laughter, contentment

peep (4:35:24 AM): and to drink from the river of enlightenment and self-awareness

me (4:35:46 AM): some people hold on to their boxes

me (4:35:52 AM): the light blinds them

me (4:36:02 AM): and they reside therein

peep (4:36:11 AM): it is my weakness that I have trouble leaving them be

me (4:36:18 AM): limiting there own potential

me (4:36:25 AM): weakness

me (4:36:27 AM): nay

me (4:36:30 AM): strength

me (4:36:41 AM): most don’t care enough

me (4:36:47 AM): don’t feel enough

me (4:37:02 AM): do not hinder yourself because they do

me (4:37:14 AM): and that is their “norm”

me (4:37:28 AM): the norm of boxy people

me (4:37:42 AM): who don’t see the extent of the sky

peep (4:37:49 AM): but I want them to

me (4:37:49 AM): and horizon

peep (4:38:06 AM): I’m not so selfish that I want to sit on a secluded beach and watch the sun rise all by myself

peep (4:38:16 AM): I want the world to sit on one big towel

peep (4:38:19 AM): and get a sun tan

peep (4:38:21 AM): together

me (4:38:31 AM): and wear sun screen

peep (4:38:37 AM): (and we’ll remember to wear sunscreen)

peep (4:38:39 AM): haha

me (4:38:44 AM): haha

me (4:39:10 AM): I do not say be selfish, in fact fight

me (4:39:22 AM): but know you won’t always win

peep (4:39:26 AM): yes

me (4:39:30 AM): have heart

peep (4:39:33 AM): I guess I just need reassurance

peep (4:39:37 AM): that fighting is the right thing

me (4:39:38 AM): but use the brain as well

me (4:39:46 AM): indeed

peep (4:39:49 AM): and that I shouldn’t just resign myself to let them be

me (4:39:54 AM): it’s “coping”

peep (4:40:00 AM): aiywa

peep (4:40:01 AM): so

peep (4:40:03 AM): we become the cure

me (4:40:10 AM): inshAllah

peep (4:40:15 AM): we are the rope of Allah

me (4:40:18 AM): and our sincerity

me (4:40:20 AM): is the needle

me (4:40:47 AM): oye lets not get self-rightious now

peep (4:40:51 AM): hahaha

a compliant: oh and i understand ur trying to spread the word of human suffering. im just advocating that u instead try to expose the root cause of the suffering. showing a starving child doesnt have any effect anymore. it just shows africans as subhuman, undignified people. and being african, i take a lot of offense to that.

im just saying, showing starving children wont have any effect anymore. and africa is much more than a place of suffering. but whatever, u obviously are content with “helping” africa. so u can carry on with this. good luck.

My turn on it:

*Trying* to point fault at a picture is asinine.
Helping people in no way degrades the people being helped. People less fortunate have a right over those who can help. People who hold a belief in contradiction to this do so because they have a sense of arrogance and false pride and are ashamed of poverty. Wealth is not a measure of the greatness of another, rather a measure of responsibility owned to others less fortunate, and this is what this group is about. Africa needs help (I been to the good part too, Egypt and they need help too) and denying the fact with false pride only perpetuates the neglect that has reigned supreme over this continent and brought it to such a condition in the first place.